ID number: TQ.2016.014
Name of interviewee: Gopa Raha
Name of interviewer: Victoria Martin
Name of transcriber: Take 1
Location: Gopa’s home
Address: Rotherham, S Yorkshire
Date: 19 March 2016
Length of interview: 1:49:30
Summary
Gopa talks about her quilted wall hanging made using a batik panel she bought in India. The panel features the Hindu Goddess Durga and explains the story behind the Durgapuja festival. Gopa explains the story and the figures featured on the panel, as well as why she bought the panel and how she made the wall hanging. Gopa grew up in Shillong, in the Himalayan foothills and describes her early memories of sewing and her aunt making batik. Later she talks about how textiles have featured in her working life, the encouragement she had from her family to take up a creative hobby on retirement and the pleasure it gives her. Other topics discussed include attending quilt shows, her quilt group and using YouTube to learn new techniques.
Interview
Victoria Martin [VM]: [Interview introductions] [Gopa], thank you very much for seeing me. Um, what I’d like to start off with, it’s, if you can just tell me a little bit about this quilt.
Gopa Raha [GR]: This quilt, as um… um, as I’m Indian and I went to Kolkata a couple of years ago and there’s this panel hanging, um, outside of this shop and it’s attracted me because it’s, um, portrait of Durga, um, painted in this panel; which is batik. It is batik but it’s so fascinating how they… the eyes and all the… the pictures are so human like, um, and then from far it looked really, really nice and… and I’d just started to make quilts at the time. So I thought, let me… let… I want to buy that. I don’t know what I’m going to do with it, um, maybe cut it and put all the separate, um, pictures in a… um, in a piece of material. Then I thought, it’s a beautiful panel, um, I can’t do that; I need to do something to highlight those pictures. So, what I did is, I did, uh, three layers of trapunto. So the first layer and little bit of heavy wadding gone in first; where I did all the free-motion quilting in this, um, so that I can highlight the figurines in the picture. And then I put another layer, um, and cut all the wadding from the back and then put another layer in and then did the normal free-motion quilting; um, to… to get all the full layers together. Um, but why is this picture? Durgapuja is, um… is what I grew up with. Um, Durgapuja is Hindu Festival of Goddess Durga, which is celebrating womanhood, celebrating motherhood; um, but it’s… it’s a festival, uh, where it just a fun and the joy and the food and new dresses and family come together and… so thi… this reminds me of that childhood. So that’s why I’ve decided, this quilt I’m not going to give it to anybody. I have already people asking, nobody’s going to get it; it’s going to be mine and mine only. It’ll give me… And every time I see it, it’ll remind me of my childhood, my happy time. So, that’s what this quilt is about; it’s very close to my heart, my culture, my heritage.
VM: So you said your… you got the panel from Calcutta?
GR: Kolkata, yeah.
VM: Is that where you’re from originally or…?
GR: Um, no, no, no. I grew up in foothill of Himalayan Mountain; a place called Shillong; where I did my study. Um, so Kolkata, now I go on holiday when I go to Kolkata; so, that’s where I bought it from. But I grew up in Shillong and my… I did some study in Kolkata too, but… but my love of, um, sewing and the texture and all of those happened probably in Shillong.
VM: So you have family there who…?
GR: I still have family there. Yes, yes.
VM: And did you do sewing as a child?
GR: Yeah. Textile always interest me, I… oh, fascinates me. Um, what fascinating part of that time, of mine, I mean, while I’ve moved on is, every region in India had it’s own heirloom, own, uh, fabric. The way they twilled it. It could be silk, it will be mixed silk, it could be a raw silk, whatever; but they had their own fabric. They also had their own embroidery technique; like kantha, like Gujarat will have kutch, Kashmir will have their Kashmiri stitch. So every single, um… mostly, every single region had their own, um, stitchery and their own heirloom. And as you… At that time, when you are growing up, uh, you thought, that’s normal; you know, this is what it is. But until you grow up, you don’t… you really start appreciating that how fascinating it is and I wonder if anybody put all of them together into a quilt. And that’s what I… I was thinking, how am I going to do that? Can I do that? I want to put those heirloom, those materials and use their own stitchery; only if then I can’t do those, I can buy those and stick it into… into the heirloom to… to say, this is from Assam; this is Assam silk and this is part of their motif from their sari. Or something like that. But that’s what I want to do and that will be really good, to see the whole different state and then different materials and different motifs or stitchery. So that sort of things fascinates me.
VM: So you… you said a word heirloom… heir… What does that mean?
GR: It’s… It’s heirloom, their own… their own…
VM: Their own kind of heritage? Yeah. Yeah.
GR: And… And they how they keep it for so long; because some things are going, with the modern… everything that’s happening. Um, quite a lot of things are gone and only couple of years ago, when I went to Assam and I saw those motif and I thought, that doesn’t look like one. They said, no, that’s what they do now and I thought, oh my God; because the colours are different and the styles started to go different. So those old ones kind of started to disappear, because they wanted to open up to the market and not everyone… So that… that sort of thing… so that… that little… so, you know, those sort of things interest me. But the new one probably, you know, after a few years they’ll want to come back, some… so yeah, the… the materials, uh, it looks like, uh, different material, different texture. Uh, if I buy sari I always try to buy, um, from the cottage industry; say it’s kind of, uh, how they make their own thing and it… I know that time and hour and everything takes, but I will buy one. But I know this is from Gujarat, this is from Madras, this is from Bengal; because they have their own motif and on that, you know, uh, textile.
VM: So you mention that colours might be specific to…
GR: Very much, yeah. It… Um, some colours you probably wouldn’t even like to buy for yourself. But that’s the traditional colour for that; that mixing of two colour. Normally your own pink and your quilt you’re going to put them two together, or anything else. But from their tradition and their saris, this two colour goes together. And that’s… that’s the traditional part of it. Um, when you wear it, when the whole… you see the full thing, it doesn’t look that bad after a while and it… it just… it… yeah, that… because that’s the… not… it’s not the colour that’s important to them, but putting into the sari that two colours are traditional for them. ‘Cause, traditionally, people always wear sari, um, and even the sari wearing in each region is different to each other. The… Everybody wears sari in the same way now, but traditionally, I mean, not each, but quite a lot of different variation of wearing sari, uh, all through the region.
VM: So is it that different colours mean different things or that it’s kind of a historic…?
GR: It’s historic and there is a meaning as well. Um… you wouldn’t see black in a traditional… you… you wouldn’t see black; ’cause black is not kind of traditional colour. But it’s still there, you… you mix it with different colour, then… then it becomes different; but not jet black and just block black anything. Same way white, white is very spiritual as well as mourning; so you wouldn’t wear pure white and if you are a married woman, it has to have some colour somewhere, because just white is like death in the family. So all those. Obviously they are changing now, um, but I’m just… I can give you the snapshot of when I was growing up, this was the traditional was maintained. Um, uh, uh, in some part it’s like, um, uh, colour… you know, then people get older, they wear more colourful dresses and all of those. Then in some part of India, people, as they grow older, they go into very demure and white and pastel colour. Uh, and I haven’t got a clue why, um, they have their own way of saying it, the… those are going pastels, you know, they are getting older, they want to get attraction, uh, with the colour and everything. On the other side, people… those who wear colour, they said, you know, because we are getting older, this is the only way, you know, we feel colour in our life. So it’s… it’s, uh, people in… you know, see whichever way they want to see. But as you… uh, it’s different if you go to Gujarat and those sort of places, um, you understand, because, um, it’s very, um, deserty kind of atmosphere and very dry and the colour will be oozing out. Because, that’s the only colour they have, because of the desert; so that, you probably will see most of the materials for quilting now, all over the world, that goes, there’s so much in… from Gujarat.
Gujarat was the basket of cotton industry during British rule and it’s still going strong, um, and they have a quite famous textile engineering indu… uh, university; so they channelled a lot of, um, the people out of that. So the textile industry going quite strong in Gujarat and you can see, um, embroidery and… and making quilt is so much part of that tradition. But if I come to Bengal, where I come from, we always did kantha, we never knew it’s any different. You know, we… we used to welcome any child with [unsure of word], because we… that’s another tradition; we lived in a giant family. Because, all the uncles were then… my Grandfather in quite a big house; so, one of the auntie will have child all the time going. So, okay, another kantha; we have to make quite a few kanthas, ’cause those days… You know, and Shillong is a very cold place; it’s foothill of Himalaya; so you need to have, you know, um, quite a few kanthas and the… and… and traditionally those… those people used to wear all those pure cotton saris. Synthetic is very new for them probably. Um, but when we were growing up it was all cotton and all cotton saris will have border and we used to get thread out of that strong border, because those thread will be quite strong. And we used to layer this kantha, obviously the aunties used to help layer those saris for five times and then used to use those threads, uh, to, um, stitch more tapes. Um, uh, which is very… so similar after we came here and realised what sashiko is and it’s… and I thought, I don’t think anybody was exposed to sashiko from Japan those days in foothill of Himalayan mountain. But this is exactly what we did. We did little motif of bird, little motif of peacock, or whatever, into that kantha, um, and with the… with the thread, which came out from that sari, original sari. The border is always heavy and it’s always, um… because border needs to hang, it… the heaviness of the border will hang the sari; so… and it’s quite strong thread. So rather wasting those thread, we used to use that; I mean, traditionally that’s what people use and it… and it matches the sari too. Because, what… what thread comes out, it will match the sari. So that’s… that’s where my kantha or we… traditionally we say [kata], uh, comes from and I didn’t know that kata is quilt [laughs].
And, it’s fascinating to see that journey, how… when I didn’t know anything about quilting when people were talking about that, and I thought, what it is? I mean, I know embroidery, but what it is? And I thought, I’ve been exposed to most of the textile art that I… no… not most but, you know, fairly good enough to textile art. What’s happening, you’ve got to YouTube it, da-da-da-da Pinterest. So I know. So what… what is quilt… quilt? Oh, this is quilt and the friends were saying, they want to learn how to do it. And I know a friend’s, um, uh, daughter-in-law, she was making quilt and I said, when she is coming? I want to see what it is. Now I know she was doing paper piecing. Because the… the quilting, the whole area of quil… it’s so big; I don’t think in my whole life I will learn the whole thing. Because the techniques, there are so many techniques, so many different way you can do it. And what fascinate me is, all the art and craft that I knew all my life, that other people are doing, you can put all of them together into a quilt. So it’s always going to be… I mean, quilt is going to become an heirloom; any quilt is going to become an heirloom. So that way you can preserve other things as well. So, I don’t know how you preserve it, but in my head that’s what I said, ‘okay, I can preserve this this way; alright, let’s do it’. I mean, now, looking at this quilt, I know now this is going to be preserved; fairly longer period of time than that panel; it would have been just a batik panel hanging in a wall. It had been torn, it had been gone in five, six, seven years; but by quilting it, I hope it lasts for 10, after I’m gone. Um, and it’s… the significance of this will be, whoever have it, it’s not an… its quilt will be in the background, but it will be the culture if my boys takes it or when they have partners and the children, they’ll take it and that’s their tradition. So that, that’s that passing on, not only the quilt but also what it depicts, I suppose, um, interest me, when I was making this quilt. It’s a lot of thinking, but in the end, I’ve got a clue whether that’s going to go or not; but at least it’s a nice thought.
VM: So, let’s take you back to Calcutta, when you first saw this panel. D’you see a lot of those batik panels and what… what are they usually used for?
GR: Yeah, yeah. Batik panel’s quite common, quite common; um, and you will always see a small shop, um, or… or a, um, a community probably making their own batik stuff and they’re hanging it outside. Um, it’s… it’s very common. Um, and that’s why probably it attracted to me, because not necessarily all of them are so fine art. You know, either eyes will be wonky, the patterns will be wonky. Because, when you do batik, which parts gets little bit of wax and… and what happens, uh, with it and, um… So when this one I saw and I thought, I never seen… and there were similar, same price, next to each other; but this one kind of jumped out because of, uh… and I looked at from good distance and I thought, this is… And there were so many, but this one was there and I thought, this is what I want. And my Sister was with me and we always go shopping together. I grabbed it and my Sister was looking exactly the same and said, ‘do not look at mine, this is going to be mine and mine only’ [laughs]. She couldn’t find any; because their eyes, usually, when they do it, it… you… you don’t see both the same. They probably draw the same, but there will probably will be a crack open somewhere and it started to… deform… well deform is not the right word, but it di… distort a little bit. But this one was really good, really good. I… I… Yeah. And it’s ha… hand-painted batik, so each and every piece was… nothing is like block print, it’s hand-painted; so that’s probably I like it. ‘Cause my Aunty used to do hand-painting batik, when we’re very young; we are not allowed to go close to her, because it was hot wax. And one day she said, I’ve got this little handkerchief, if you are really, really nice, like you talk about yourself, if you’re really, really nice, then I’ll let you have a little go. And then I know how she used to di… dip in the hot water and give it to my hand and I’ll draw a little something; and while she was making her stole or the sari, she will dip in and she will dip my little hanky in there and, you know… and, I think that memory also there when I selected these; because, this is going to give me that memory. Um, and I… that Aunty of mine is, um, got a little bit of memory loss, uh, so that… that’s another thing. There are so many significance with this, is, it’s like a… a… a story, uh, for the full quilt and that’s the reason I chose it. I mean, I had other quilts, but none of them can keep me the story of my heart, I think that’s the right word; because it takes me through a childhood, it takes me, um… and my fascination with, um, free-motion quilting; which is I’m still struggling with; with all the tension and everything. But I like to give it a go and some very dark material; so I’m hoping it’s going to disappear in the back [laughs]. But it… Yeah, um, that’s… that’s what is so, um, fascinating about this quilt really; well, or wall hanging. I don’t think I want to make it in a quilt; I have a wall hanging… hanging probably is the right place this needs to be.
VM: Will you just explain for the recording what batik is?
GR: Batik is a kind of printing, um… technique; which is, um, you have a piece of material, it just… other way round, you block the area that you don’t want to colour with that particular colour that you’re going to put your, uh, material… um, your dye. So, first you draw… So it’s very… you really need to know the technique because it’s not like you are painting, I want this paint on top of that paint, it just other way round; so, if your fabric is white and you want to draw a picture, the only place you block, where you want that white to stay; and rest of it you’re going to block it with wax. And then you dip that material into dye, let it dry and do all the… all the other stuff and then you either keep it, um, that dye, you don’t… don’t put hot anything, because that white part is going to go; then you decide if your… if your dye is light blue, you start very light to dark. So if it is light blue, then… then you just block only the light blue that you want to keep; so it goes on. So, when you see a batik with the lots of colour, hand-painted, not block, then you know the amount of work gone in there. And that’s what probably I feel quite awful about, that I didn’t take the name of the person who did the batik; ’cause my quilt in here is nothing; my quilt is here, is to preserve this batik panel and I wish I’d taken the name. And I’m… I’m really thinking, I’m going to go back to that shop, um, who did that, they can write it down, who did the batik. ‘Cause the amount of work gone in, I mean, if you look at it, it first started with white and those stayed and then, they put probably is light colour, they blocked it; then they put probably the red, then they blocked it; then they put the orange… or the orange first and the red. The last thing went in is black. So, going through those process, keeping the eyes on all the figures, so beautifully depicted, it must be such a hard work, because it’s not block. And then they put all the black, then when they wax it, they’ll crack it a little bit and that’s why you see those little crack comes through. Um, and, then it goes into hot water to, um, melt all those wax. So yeah, that’s… that’s the thing; so it’s not only… I mean, the batik is printed all over the world, but it… this is the heritage of Indian batik too and how they hand-paint to a picture. So I think, there’s a whole lot of story into this, um, and that’s fascinate me. And it’s… it’s, um, celebrating artists and their artistry, um, which is specially those, it’s so dying; because they don’t get enough money; they don’t and… and this is going to go. Because this panel, when they… it was so cheap and I couldn’t even believe it could be that cheap. I probably paid… it’s about close to £5, that panel, and when they say it and I said, that’s not right, um, that’s the only way they can sell, because nobody will take it and that’s their livelihood. So the fa… next generation from that, it’s not going to do it, they will go into block print and mass production; so they’re going to lose all those fine art.
VM: All the skills that’s gone into that.
GR: All the skills to go with it, yeah.
VM: So the more colours in a batik piece, the more work’s had to go into it hasn’t it?
GR: Yeah. Depending on what kind. If it is a block, [interruption] like most of them are, may not be that much; but when it is like this, it’s the proper intricate batik, there’s a lot of work goes in. I know, because my, uh, Aunty used to do batik at home and one simple stole is to take her so long, so long; because, uh, if it… she will decide how many dyes are go in. So if she knows that there are two, then it is done; but if she knows it’s something like three or four, it will be there for God knows how long; because it’s wax and it has to be hot, dip the, um, [tip?] of a brush and it… if it is fine it’ll gone through the fine and she will never get price for that. I mean, that probably will be in thousands, the amount of work gone in. She’ll only get a couple of hundred. She never sold it, it was her hobby, but you… you… you can… it never will be a… a… I don’t think, um, appreciate with money at all; because it’s never going to be paid [laughs]. If this would have been in western country, probably will, but those artists, uh, never get, uh, paid. So yeah. And… And thing is, to be able to produce like this, all of them, I think at least there would have been a market, but I… but it… because it’s batik and it’s so difficult to produce all of them like this; so that’s the… I think that’s where they are struggling. But they’re fascinating how they do their… and you just can just see under the sun, they were all sitting. It’s like a frame and they’re… painting.
VM: It is, it’s a beautiful piece. Can you tell me a bit more about the people?
GR: Durga. Oh gosh, it’s a whole lot story; have to open it. Its God is Durga. Um, Durga is very… it’s Hindu God… Hindu God of, um, you know, mother as well as, um… mother is the symbol of who protects you; so it’s a protector, um, and protector from evil. It’s a… It’s a folk story, um, and as the story goes, is, um, the evil Ashur, that’s his name and the Mother Durga. The… When Durga comes to see, um, we call… we say, [unsure of word] means, when she comes to her Mother; because she lives with her Husband and in-laws; so, when she comes once a year to her Mother. Um, and then once… when she came, um, with her children, um Lakshmi. Lakshmi is, um, the Goddess of… this is the Goddess of Wealth, but it’s the Goddess of Keeper as well; so, um… so that you… you have enough to live on. So that’s the Lakshmi. Saraswati is the Goddess of, um, Education; anything to do with education. I mean, when we were growing up, uh, special Saraswati Puja were… were just for the kids and it’s a special Puj… It’s a relationship you build with your God; so if you have a God… everybody… you know, the… the adults are doing, I think the children start to get lost in there. So you have the children only… you have… we have to do Saraswati Puja because our exam is coming; so you’ve got to focus, so you… everything else takes out. I mean, you’ve gotta… I mean, that’s the part of Hinduism. Ganesh is… goes into everything; so, he is, um, [specialist terminology]. Um, if you… [specialist terminology] is very much a… the… what you want to set up to do; so, you will be able to… and his… his blessing is, um, so that you can achieve whatever you want to do. And traditionally, Ganesh Puja is the fast Puja, no matter what Puja you do. Um, there is a little story about Ganesh as well, um, about how he were dying and then, um, the God… they didn’t want… you know, they were quite, well, upset and what they can do and then they put an elephant head, um, so that he survives. That’s the full story. Karthikeya is the eternal, um, bachelor, never married. But this is another fascinating chapter. Each region… it’s worship in a different way; so, in Bengal we see Durgas children, in some places they see they are Husband and Wife; so… Because Hinduism is not a religion, it’s a way of life for a group of people who lived in… in Indus Valley and Indus Valley civilisation, they moved from not west of India to all over; but the south was little bit different, because they are [specialist terminology] culture and, uh, uh, not was little bit of Aryan culture; but there was a mix and they have taken each other’s and made their own, ten odd thousand years ago. So it’s… it’s still evolving; it’s quite fascinating what… you know, never thought of that before. But when I… when you start to grow up and you realise that, it’s all depends on what happens at the time in that place and why she comes at the time. Um, the… in Bengal the Durga comes once a year to his… to their Mother. It gives them… It traditionally, Durga Puja, this is the time the Daughter-in-Laws can now go to stay with their Mother for a little while; so that’s the chance to stay with your Mother. So that becomes a tradition. It’s not that everybody follows it, but at least it’s in your head, this is the time the Daughter-in-Law will spend some time with their Mother. So that’s a nice way to… Because the Mother… the… the Mother-in-Law will also have her Daughter coming and stay with us. You know, that sort of thing. So, it’s kind of ingrained into the tradition.
And the story about Ashur is, you know, she came to, um, the… in… in the ar… in her motherland and that this demon was killing all the people and the demon was hiding in, uh, this, um, um, Mahesh, which is bull and then she knew because she has got third eye and she saw it and she got the demon out and killed the demon. And that’s the day when the demon was killed and that’s where the Puja is; because the… the world is saved; according to this folk tale. So that’s what it is.
Um, a couple of years ago, it was in BBC programme, in a museum, they wanted to do Durga Puja; because, Durga, um, it’s… I mean, this is one is just a picture, which is, uh, trying to puff up a little but in a, uh… in traditionally it’s made out of clay; so it… it means… you know, I don’t know whether they still have it, uh, um, um, because it… after Puja she goes, so it goes into… back to the river, so the… all the mud kind of melts away and goes back to the river. But in British museum, which museum I don’t know, they got, um, a guy, um, the porter, like you were talking about, from In… from Kolkata, he came and he… um, it’s like human like figurines they will make. Bigger, better, bold, um, and the… and the Puja goes on for, um, at least, depending on which part of India it is, it’s for ten days. Um, but last four days are the most important part. And then, those figurines are going to be totally dressed up like saris and… and this t… the hands… why some of the hands people were asking and my boys used to ask, why he has got so many hands? It’s the only way I can tell them. It’s her horsepower. That many hands mean ’cause she’s that powerful, she has got… you know, that’s the only way they will understand. But it’s all about, when the demon came, she needed to have enough weapon in her hand to be able to kill the demon; and everybody gave her some kind of, um, weapon to get… you know, kill the demon to save the world; and that’s why those hands are… you know, she has those hands to hold all of those armouries, to kill the demon. So that’s… that’s what it is and then, her children came and she’d spend ten days with her Mum, then she goes back. And then end of, um, tenth day… um, the end of ninth day, on the tenth day, then… which we call in Bengali, [specialist terminology], we take all the, um… the whole thing, uh, in a truck, sometimes people, uh, hold them in their head and, um, take it to the river and then do the last Puja and let the Mother go… go back to, um… to be with her Husband and wait for next year; for… for her to come back. So yeah, that’s the story of my Durga.
VM: So when the… the… the Daughters go and visit their Mothers, is there… what… what do they do? Is there any sort of special celebrations or is it just spending time together?
GR: For… It’s spending time, that’s the main thing. I mean, it is ingrained. Because those days, the Daughter is to go… when they go to go, they used to go to in-laws and you stay with… I mean, nowadays, with the job and everything, people stay separate; so the world is different place. But those days they used to stay with in-laws and this is the only opportunity once a year they can go and stay with their Mum. And obviously, if you go to your Mum, um, it’s nicer; you… you… you know, it’s… it’s a nice place, it’s your childhood where you spent and you meet your friends and… And the… the tenth day of the Durga Puja celebration comes with loads of food; that’s the day when people invite each other, um, it’s the food goes on and every single day of the celebration of Durga Puja, um, we remember when we were young, we used to save every single new clothings. When you used to wear a frock, then it was frock, when you start to wear sari, well sari. So that, those five or six days of the Durga Puja, I can wear a new sari every day. Because it is impossible to have so many in one go, [laughs] so it’s to save it, so that in Puja we all have new sari every single day. So that’s another one, because that’s, which one are you going to wear? Oh yeah, this will match together and, you know, those sort of things and then people will… uh, on the tenth day people are coming constantly, we are going to people’s houses and you take blessings from people for the year ahead, uh, and wear new saris. It’s all fun and it’s like, uh, um… what I remember, a little bit, in what used to happen, where I grew up in Shillong; uh, a place called, um, Laban, um, when my… and it… Durga Puja is very communal affair; so, it… it… it will be in a community centre, say, uh, that’s the only way and the whole community will gather. And, around it, every single night we will do our production of a theatre, dance, drummer, or something or other; so it’s like a huge big communal affair probably goes on. We do this mostly end of September to October time, during on the, uh, position of sun and moon. And, when we know what it is, we probably will start practising from July, August, for that, um, celebration and there will be always, uh, two big production for last two days and other days will be always small production of dance, drummer; there will be competition; there will be prize giving. So it… it just like a Mela; um, it’s like a funfair. Yeah, there is no difference. And that’s the memory. It’s so nice. It still happens; um, as a matter of fact it start… it… kind of there was a dip little bit, because somebody has to manage it. So, um, it still started to happen now, again; so I’m hoping, next year, Durga Puja will go there to enjoy that bit. I took my boys once, when they were young, mm, very young as a matter of fact, because this is the school time, I couldn’t take them. Just so that they can have a little bit of memory what is it about; you know, the funfair and what people do.
VM: So it is a celebration that you would try and go back to India for, or is it something you could… you would do here?
GR: We do it in here as well, yeah, Durga Puja is quite… I don’t know how many Durga Puja every year happens in England. Good amount. I mean, in London, it’s south at least probably ten odd. Um, but all over. And close by, we have one in Sheffield, one in Barnsley, one in Bradford, one in Leeds; I think there are two in Leeds. Liverpool. And it’s about the same and we will all gather there. Um, when we first came I always remember, there was only one in Liverpool close by and we used to go and rent a place; or we used to go and stay in a hotel; so that have three days of celebration and then come back. Then when I have children, I used to stay just all one day; it was difficult to go every day. So, but now it is in Barnsley we can go everyday from home. Yeah. So it… it’s the same, but it’s to the same. Like, you know, when you are young, when you are a child it’s different than you’re adult; your position in the whole thing becomes different. We have to take the responsibility of whatever; in those days I didn’t have to [laughs]. So that’s the difference.
VM: So, the… the actual panel you already had; so then, where did you get the other materials for the… the binding and the backing and…?
GR: Yeah, yeah. What… Um… the back… the first is in… the back of this, is, there are three layers of material already; ’cause there… obviously the… the batik and I put a little bit of, um, um, quite lofty wadding, so that I can get the puffiness. But because I have to stitch it, I put, um, very thin muslin, to hold it, otherwise it’ll all go into the machine; so that I can do the free motion and do that little panelling. And then, once I finished all of those, I cut those wadding, because I didn’t want that loftiness all… spill over rest of the panel. And then I put another… I mean, this one is a cotton lining material, which has got… they call it twill or something; uh, which is… which has already wadding stick to it and I thought, I might as well, instead, otherwise it’ll go… become so heavy it’ll start tearing from the top. So I used that twill, again put it back and then finish off with the free motion, um, so that it can hold. And I… I left a couple of free motion part in there, um, so that, when I put the who… the last layer, I can stitch all of them together, so that they can hold. But the main work happened with the, uh, first lot and the muslin backing, when I did the free motion; so that I can have a trapunto effect for the… for the panel. Difficult with this in picture, because you don’t really see the free motion and it… but, for me it wasn’t that important; the important is the batik, um, and to preserve the batik, um, and the panel. I mean, it looks like… I mean, these… this been cracked as well and you can see, initially started probably that, but in a cracked, in a way, they have no control. But that’s how the… normally eyes and other things goes into other panel. But this one is not and that’s what kind of, uh, really interested… [CHATTER].
VM: I noticed you’ve got a label on the back. Would you just tell me about the label and what’s on that?
GR: Oh right, the label. I was toying with the name of, um, the, um… this panel. But because this is to do with the, um, celebrating womanhood, celebrating motherhood, so… and the name of this Goddess is Durga. So that’s the Durga Shakti, because, in… in a child’s eye, mother is always quite powerful aren’t they? ‘Cause I used to think my Mum is powerful; my boys still think I am quite… I was… my Son say now, was; so I thought, okay, let me put that way. So Shakti is the… is the strength and Durga is woman; so it’s like a strength of woman. I mean, that’s what the name… that’s… uh, that’s the point, that’s what came and probably two days later something else came. But by the time I stitched it, so I didn’t want it to change [laughs]. So, obviously, um, if I find out who, um, the name of that guy who made it or probably a group, then I probably will make another label and stick it in there. Um, so yeah, it’s quilted; it should be quilted by me… So that was this really. Yeah. I’m quite happy with the… how it finished. But the binding, it just black… plain black material, um, and I put a little sleeve so that I can put this and, um, stick some nail to hang in the wall.
VM: So where does this…?
GR: It’ll… It’ll go right at the bottom of the staircase; so, in the morning when I come down I can see it. First thing [laughs]. To set me off for rest of the day. That’s the idea. That’s the idea. My young woman already wanted to take it. I said, yeah you will, when I’m dead [laughs].
VM: So your youngest Son’s got his eye on it then?
GR: Oh yeah, oh, he has got eye on everything. He has got eye on everything. All his rubbish is around my house, but, yeah, he’s taken all my stuff. If I can’t find anything, that means I know where it is gone; but he will always deny. Then I find it, I say, oh it’s always been there. Yeah. You’ve taken it.
VM: These sneaky boys.
GR: Yeah, he invades everybody’s cupboard… when he comes.
VM: So with the… Would you just explain what the trapunto is; what that is?
GR: Ah. Very new technique, very new. I’m… I’m not hugely knowledge. All I understand, trapunto, it’s an Italian stuffed technique; how you stuff, um, to give a texture and the 3D effect to a design. That’s what trapunto is. So, I’m… I… I don’t know whether I… I followed exactly what it’s supposed to be, but I’ve recently learned how to do it. So, um, I try to do that way. Um, sometimes people… like I put the whole wadding and then do free motion, to get that effect. But sometimes I know from YouTube, people don’t do that, they just stitch and stuff, um, cotton to get that 3D effect; instead of going through. Um, but when I looked at it and I thought, oh, for me it’ll never happen, it’ll be so much work and by the time I’ll finish it, it’ll sit in the drawer; so, if I do it in that way, put the whole thing and if I do free motion, then it’ll suppress the material and it’ll lift the, um… the places where I want to lift. So that’s, uh… I mean, nowadays lots of people do it this way anyway; but I don’t know whether that’s the right way the trapunto goes. But I have seen some… a lady called Patsy Thompson, she was doing trapunto this way; um, so I thought, okay, I think I can achieve that, that’s kind of achievable to me. So I… I’ve done that. Um, but there are so many different technique to do, um, to give a piece of material which is just plain material, but you can give different texture to that by adding stuff in it, or filling up with, um, each motif; with a different layer of full or whatever, um, to give the 3D effect. Anything with texture I love.
VM: So, was this the first time you tried doing trapunto?
GR: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s very first time [laughs]. Yeah. Another one I did, a very small one, by stuffing. Hated it; hated every second I’ve done it and I thought, oh, I have to finish it since I started. But there has to be another way I can achieve the same effect and this is the effect I don’t want to try again. So, obviously, YouTube came to rescue and find Patsy Thompson was doing this. And there was another woman call… it’s… she’s from Romania, um, her name is Geta… Geta something. Ge… No. It’s Romanian quilting, um, and she does the same way, her trapunto. Um, I just try once, because, what she does just the other way around, she gets a pattern and, um… and then she put the wadding on the back, pattern in the front… pattern on the back, but the wadding on the front and then she puts, um, um, organza kind of material on the top and then… then she stitches… she stitch from the back and when the for… for whatever outline she wants to stitch. When everything finishes, she cut all the wadding. It’s very difficult because it’s organza, so you can always snip it; so she cut all the pattern from the back, um, the… the wadding, um, but the main backing and the organza stays and you just see the wadding when it’s cut. And then she use the same kind of, uh, free motion; very, um, micro stippling and that lifts up the whole pattern. So I thought, okay, that’s another one, but in a different way and I can do it other way round; I can do it from the front, um, because my pattern is different. So yeah, that’s how two people… and I’ve seen how they do it, I just put them together and I… I thought, if it doesn’t, I can always take it off. But as, uh… I’m… I’m happy with the result, I’m happy with the result; it came out alright and I love free motion. I have a long way to go; my tension plays up, makes me so mad when the tension… because I haven’t got a clue how to sort it out [laughs]. But I just try and try and try again; come back again and oh it’s fine, uh, it’s probably the thread. So you just kinda…
VM: So which bits of that have you done by hand and which bits were a machine?
GR: None of them, none of them. No, no, no. That was the… That… That’s what I wanted to achieve; ’cause the other one that I did, it was totally by hand and maybe that’s why I hated it. Um, if it is embroidery I will like it. If it’s why or not I stitch it and didn’t like it; so I thought, no, this one has to be with hand. If I do it with hand it’ll never finish; so, I knew that, um… and it’s… yeah, I didn’t do anything with… with hand at all, even the back is not with hand. Um, and the labels; nothing is hand. All of them are machine stitched. Even those, you know, the highlighting those, they are all machine. [chatter in background] ‘Cause those highlight, I done it after I put the final layer, so that it holds together. Mm. So… In ideal world, I probably will have back white, but um… um, because I want… wanted to make it that heavy and there wasn’t that black backing twill I could find, so I’ll just have to have white and I thought, okay, always good to see the back; only the front.
VM: It’s beautiful.
GR: Yeah, the picture is so nice. Really nice. The colours are so beautiful. I mean, that’s why I didn’t do much free motion in there, so I can bring out all the hand painted batik design and, I mean these, I mean, this is just a dress and how they just, you know, the, um, covered the whole thing with wax initially; and kept that tiny bit. Wax is… it’s not a pa… it’s so tough to be able to achieve that and, uh…
VM: All the… the fine detail is, isn’t it?
GR: Yeah, but for them it probably is quite easy. I don’t know. But when I see it, I thought, oh my God, how fascinating; how much work gone into it. So that’s why I tried to highlight it by stitching those, so it gives that little… you know, like a folder for your dress.
VM: So you had a go at a little bit of batik when you were younger.
GR: Yes. [VM: Whats…?] Just a little… Just a little handkerchief. My Auntie allowed me to paint. I wasn’t even allowed to dip it out from the… from the hot wax; I mean, she dipped it from the hot wax and I just probably did little bit of whatever. I was really, really young. And then she got married and gone and that’s where my batik ended. But I… I knew the process, what the process was, yeah.
VM: So what sort of things did you sew, what sort of craft things did you do when you were younger?
GR: Oh gosh. Um, traditionally, in Bengali wedding, um, you… if it is a… a… a daughter in the home getting married, like my… when my Auntie got married; we were very close, um, you give something to… a nice something, you know… you know, bed cover or something. Um, you buy… obviously people buy mostly; but if you can make one, that goes. So I remember that first bed cover. I was not that kind of young yet, I was probably in year eight when my Auntie got married. Um, I didn’t know anything about, um, stuffed applique at all, but I… I thought, how can I make it… because I did a, um… um, applique plus embroidery and on the leaf I wanted to lift like little bit of 3D effect and I stuffed it with, um, just normal cotton. Not traditionally. I mean, normally you stuff it in a different way; but I stuffed it, just pushed it underneath the, uh, last stitch of the applique and that was quite good. My Auntie still has it; um, so that… that’s sort of big thing, the bed cover. But, uh… in [unsure of word], we are not access to… we’re not close to Mumbai or Kolkata like this, that area, to be able to buy things; so, um, if you’ll need a tablecloth of anything, has one for whatever reason, you have to do it one. And being the eldest of the… the whole family for my generation, it always sat on me. And then, uh, be… Shillong is a very cold place. Um, we needed quilt all through the year; the whole year you need quilt; so, the… and because this was in that corner, when we are growing up, you… you can’t just go to the shop or buy… buy a cardigan or a… or a… a… or a shawl, you have to make one. Shawl you can still but the cardigan was very difficult; you know, good quality, really nice. I mean, whatever used to come, we had to wear it, but they were terrible. But you can buy beautiful wool, because traditional, everybody made their own jumpers and sweaters; so you grew up with that. I always knitted; I don’t think I do have a fascination for knitting anymore, but if I… if it’s nice wool I like to touch it; because of I always grow up with knitting. I was… I was clearing other day I still have so many wool left. I was pushing… I look after my Mum, um, and I’m pushing my Mum. You know, why don’t you make some? But she is getting into that age that, you know, cast on and all of those it… it’s difficult for her. And I was saying, just do plain up to this point and then rest; I can… I can, you know, show you how much you cast off and cast on. That… Uh, um, yeah, the wool was always… we always knitted for ourself, we had to do it. Um, now, it’s totally different story. Hardly anybody because of all the, you know, people that are accessible to nice, uh, commercial stuff and people don’t have enough time. I mean, even we you didn’t have time when we were studying, our hand would be going because we didn’t have to look at always what we are doing; because we will be studying. I mean, we were young but we knew it so early on. I knew one of my Aunties to what… when used to go to watch a film and if it is just knit and pearl, she will just knit and pearl whole thing and when it comes out it’s… You know, because they were so good.
VM: So she’d just be able to sit there and watch a film and… and carry on doing it without looking.
GR: Yeah, yeah, yeah, in a hall; not at home on TV, in a hall. ‘Cause you need to finish it for maybe school dress for her children or anything. But they were very, very good and they would achieve that kind of thing. But, um, you know, knit and pearl we could easily do without looking at it; you know, people, there is a need, they can do it, uh. So, yeah, that’s… that’s… I always work with texture, embroidery; anything that’s sort of craft were always quite fascinating. And the costumes of different region is so varied; so varied. If you ever had chance to go to, uh, the website and the costume of different region and there is also, um, the older costume and the newer costume; that also has a difference. Quite fascinating. It’s like Victorian time and the new time; that’s the only way I can compare it.
VM: Mm. Excuse me a minute while I just have a quick look… So when… when did you leave India?
GR: When I got married. Uh, my Husband, he’s also a doctor. He, uh… He was working, um, back in India and got a offer to do an interview; because at the time British Embassy was recruiting doctors from India; ’cause there was a shortage of doctor in here and he got chance to come. And then, typical Indian way, I never saw him… it’s an… it’s a [unsure of word] marriage, I think that’s what they call, um, and I got married and came here. Lucky for both the parents and lucky for me and my Husband, we get on and we’re married 35 years; but, um, I wouldn’t wish that for my children [laughs]. They’ll say, Mum, that’s your Wife, you chose it, you live with her, I’m going. ‘Cause it’s different and I think that’s right. But those days that worked and that’s how I came. So when I…
VM: So it was an arranged marriage but your Husband was already here?
GR: Very much, yeah, yeah. Um, and yeah, that’s how my journey… I couldn’t… I mean, I studied in St Mary’s Convent; very bad experience. But, um, a part of my study, not all of it. Um, but when I came here, um, I realised I couldn’t speak properly; because the language and the, um… and the connotation of the language and I think the biggest was, uh, the accent, the Yorkshire accent; because I came to Pontefract. And I thought, this is… this is… what am I going to do? I can… I can go, I can… I can… It’s only because I was here I probably couldn’t go, otherwise I would have gone back to me Dad; I’m not going back, you know. Um, but I thought, I have to push myself. My Husband said, you need to go to… you need to learn how to do, um… how to speak and so my journey started.
Um, I went to a class and then somebody… then my Husband said, uh, there is a sewing class in so and so and some elderly ladies at the time, they were probably my age, but I was so young, they were elderly in my eyes [laughs]. There was a sewing group, machine sewing group, um, joined there because that’s the best way you can learn. Because you have to communicate; you were forced to learn and if you go to any ESOL or English as a second language cour… it’s going to be so technical. And I was constantly, uh… I did have a blockage of that technicality, ’cause, uh, oh my God, grammar and all of that, I never liked. But that class, of those elderly people, were so good. Um, they taught me a huge amount and I had to communicate with them. They wanted to know my story and I had to tell them my story. After a couple of years I started to… and also my sewing journey in this country as well. I bought a little Singer machine. Um, I remember knit a wool jacket, I not got a clue how I did it, but [laughs] I did. But obviously there was a tutor. Mm. And those too… um, and they all helped me. So, um, that’s how it started and then I thought, I need to work; I can’t sit at home not do anything and cooking. Um, I was always an outdoor kind of girl, was in kind of sports; but I thought, I can’t do all of those now. So, went to college, um, and then they said, you can do a proficiency exam under Cambridge University and that will give you an extra layer of education on top of. Because I just finished my degree, then I got married and came; so I didn’t have chance to do my Masters, even if I started. And, when I tried to do Masters, it was so expensive, um, we couldn’t sustain it. So I… And they said, if you do Cambridge University, that’ll give you a chance; and at the time, some recognition of your degree too; so that’s what I did. Took me… I can’t even remember, was it two year course or one year? English course that I did under Cambridge. And that started to open quite a lot of door.
Then, um, I, uh, went to do computer class and then there was this, uh, advertisement of a job, uh, to run, um, with the boss at the time, uh, Sue Barrett, to this woman’s group. Uh, so I applied for that job, um, and just prior to that I applied for the Youth Service as well; so I did some Youth Service courses. You can’t do Youth Service job without their courses anyway; so I was, uh, doing some Youth Service job, working with vulnerable young people. And then the Grow job came, so I had two job and two children; Husband working away. It was quite a bit of a nightmare and I was struggling; so I had to let go one of them. So I let go the Youth Service job, because it was an odd timing and when I always had to have a babysitter for my kids. But with the Grow, I could sustain it, because… because it was working with woman, they looked after their staff, so that they… they can get the best out of the staff. So, if it is with my kids, they make sure that I work around the kids, so their life doesn’t get… And I didn’t know that could happen. But that [unsure of word] was fascinating; ’cause they used to bri… let me bring all my admin work, what I had to do at home; so I used to bring everything home at night. I could just finish it. So it was kind of so flexible, um, and that was how my journey with working with people started.
Though it was mainly woman, but we did work with men. Um, but it’s… it’s the whole family that we worked with; so, if it’s to do with the men, it’s the… And that’s the same kind of is the… is the journey; it’s… it’s the fabric of each family how… how the dynamic of each family and what they want to achieve and what’s rightfully they can achieve. And you try your best to give them that. If anybody aspire to be, I don’t know, a teacher, so let’s see the journey, where we are at, how far we can go and we have a huge amount of achievement over my 25 years of working with Grow. And, um, I grown with them. And because I always love textile and all of those, um, I wrote… uh, those days funding was useful; so I… I thought, how I can bring the whole Rotherham communities together; different school to, um, Age Concern. I want to bring all of them together; how do I do it; different communities? So, um, I can’t even remember which… who gave us the funding, but I was talking to this funder of our vision and, because I was already working and I knew all of those people and I know, uh, it is accessible to me, so what I’m talking I will be able to deliver it. So, in the end, they came with the money. And we… I went to, um, Age Concern and then asked them what they can think about, older… Rotherham when it was… you know, when they were growing up; was the significant part of Rotherham, that they can remember this church and the river or whatever. And I said, that’s it. And I asked, um, uh, the workers in there, you know, I can come and help, or if you don’t want me to be involved that’s fine. This little bit of material, just plonk it, something, depict what they are thinking. So, um, obviously they couldn’t stitch, so they, um, glued it, um, a little felt into this piece of material, the church and all of those. So it is… it’s a… it’s a… it’s a story, it’s also very close to them and it’s also textile. And then we went to St. Anne’s School and they wanted to… I mean, they were quite informed at the time, they wanted to save their world, obviously, by looking at it; so they… they… all with felt, they did all those pictures with, uh, people from different continent; whichever way they saw it. They’re holding hands all over this globe. All with felt, they did the… the cutting of the globe and everything and I had to do it, because they wanted me to be there every week. And they made all those animals, you know. Um, the… the tiny… silk could be this tiny on the… and the little bird will be that big; you know, there was no synergy, but that’s what they wanted to do. And… And every community did something; uh, the Chinese community did and different, um… uh, the Arabic community, the Indian community did; um, everybody did something and that was not a quilt. I didn’t know about quilt those days, I… I mean, if I would have known it’s quilt I would have made it like a quilt. But what we did, we did separate kind of framing of the whole piece of material and, um, that stayed in the, um, uh, local museum for quite a long time. So yeah, I…
VM: So you’ve always kind of gone with textiles, you stayed with textiles?
GR: Yeah, yeah. Textile and gardening. I’ve tried to… when I work with any woman into that sort of, this first stage, I always bring the focus of the mind into what I focus mine; with, uh, a variety of textile or gardening. Um, gardening is a lot cheaper, so I said, what you have in your cupboard? So they’ll get little seed or something or… or beans or whatever, let it soak and let it grow. And the next even I visit them and they will see and I can just see straightaway, they were watching it as it growing. It probably will die but the focus is there. So yeah, gardening and… and it’s… it’s always been, because my Dad always gardened. Um, so I think it became from there.
VM: So when did you first think about quilting?
GR: When I decided, um, this is… I didn’t know anything about quilting; I had no idea, tell you the truth. I mean, I know what quilt is but the quilt in this form, I have no idea. I know what kantha was and, uh, when I finished working, um, because, uh, about that time I was tired and, um, the… the staff there was no money, they couldn’t really… and I thought, time for me to go. Because, uh, I won’t be able to sustain in this level. My health started to deteriorate and my Husband and my boys, they said, just get out; we will… I mean, boys still didn’t finish their uni, um, but… So I took the plunge and got out. And after a while I started to get so bored, I needed to do something with my hands; so I bought these.
This one, it’s nothing, but I knew, I’m… I’m doing something; so, um, just to focus. It was something to do with… Summer was alright because it was gardening, the winter was terrible. And then this couple of friends, they were talking about quilting. I thought, what is it? Because, in my head, I probably never even exposed to one, or even if I have, I didn’t see any… any significance of it. Um, then obviously went into computer; the world opened up. I thought, I need to find a quilt class. In 2011 I found one in Rotherham and… and I found, if there is anybody from the group wants to go. Um, but they’re not going in some places and by the time… um, the time moved on, I couldn’t get into that class.
The next year I thought, you know, if I try everybody else together into that class it’s never going to happen; I’m going to just get into myself in there be… and I found this shop in Maltby, on top of that… it’s a… it’s a wool shop or different kind of craft shop. They have only fabric upstairs. Really small, they can hardly take five people in there and it was top of the, um, that shop where a teacher called Lucy Hall; um, she did this quilting. But she is a different kind of quilter; I mean, that’s why probably I’m there. It’s… and the places that I went, the quilter had their own technique and that’s the technique she’ll pass onto you. They will have a definitive, uh, quilt and that’s what they’re going to pass onto you. And Lucy gets best out you; so her technique is very diverse. Because she’s a versatile teacher; so if I bring in… I mean, this is a proper full silk paper piecing pattern, um, never thought in my life I will attempt this. And because it’s full silk and, um, some of them are dupion. I bought this material from India, in here it is probably 17 odd quid a metre, but in… um, I probably paid about… really, really cheap; not even a pound a yard of the… of the material. And some of them are maybe £1.50, that sort of, uh, price. That’s why I could make it, because paper piecing takes up so much spa… um, material. And she said… this is not that expensive material to you, um, why don’t you le… give it a go; let’s see whether you can do it. And that’s how she does it. I mean, nobody else has done it, but she will work with all five of them… all… all five or six of them with our own level that we are in and, uh, she will… you know, she will work with you what you want to achieve. And that’s what I like. I… Otherwise it’s become like a… some of the other places I went, couple of them, just to see how it works and, um, they will do all same thing everybody. Which is very good, it’s… technically you’re learning so many different stuff. Uh, but I wanted to do this and I found now more and more people are doing… the teachers are doing this kind; you know, whatever you want to do. Um, let’s do it that way. But it’s not… By saying that, um, we also have, uh, something what she brings in we all do. I mean, at the moment we are doing charity quilts; so… so that happens alongside of whatever you want to do. I mean, I made couple of bags, uh, along with things; so yeah. I mean, this is another wall hanging. Most of my quilts are gone, but the things that I don’t want to give anybody, that’s what are left [laughs]. These are the only one in here; nobody’s going to get it, at this point. So this is a full silk, um dupion… and paper piecing. But it’s, um…
VM: So is it like a sampler, that?
GR: It’s a sampler but it is… you probably know Dear Jane. Dear Jane is quite fascinating story of this, uh, oh I don’t know, hundred odd years ago, this woman who made quilt and they found it and the story. There’s a lot of Dear Jane inspired quilt all over, even Festival of Quilts, somebody made Dear Jane. So we took her pattern, which pattern is available. This is what the tutor brought in and everybody did it in a different way. Um, so this is the… this is the Dear Jane… She bought the pattern, she gave us the pattern to do with it; so I chose… these are the blocks. I only chose the paper pasting block because those materials are so difficult to sew; um, and that’s what I need with the Dear Jane inspired quilt. And in here, did free motion as well, so that these kind of leaps up and, uh, a sashing kind of… Oh, this is probably my very first, um, the full quilt; machine quilting.
VM: So when you first started quilting, about how long ago was that?
GR: 2…2012. 2012. 2012, yeah.
VM: Gosh, you’ve done some beautiful things, since you’ve only been doing it for a couple of years.
GR: Do you think so?
VM: Yeah.
GR: I just think, oh gosh, I have so much to do; so much to learn [laughs]. So yeah, so this is the… this is the Dear Jane version of my quilt. Which, uh, the end result I really like. And then we did, um… this one was done before that, but it’s too big and I couldn’t quilt it. I probably have to take it to quilte it, because it’s so big. But this one is, um… [microphone noise] quilt-as-you-go so it’s, uh… it’s each block then you hand sew them together; otherwise it’s too big to, um, stitch it together. But this is not free motion, this is just using your normal, um, walking foot. Um, and it’s all Moda; apart from this one. I don’t know what is it from there; but it’s Moda and I love the Moda material and I bought a layer cake and, uh, yeah. It’s an expensive hobby. Mo… Mo… This is from India, this is from here, I don’t buy very many material from here, because they are expensive and this one is, um, Jinny Beyer inspired, um, which needs to be quilted. It’s, uh…
VM: Would you just describe the colours in that? ‘Cause I think you need to describe the colours in this one [laughs].
GR: Uh, I think the colour attract me. Um, it’s, uh… Oh, there’s no significance, it just, I like the colour. It’s, um, dark blue to mottled; um, uh, dark green; then green bluish; then blue. Then, um, you come with teal and the la… I mean, there are quite a lot of batik in here as well; so the batik. Um, light blue and white batik. But, uh, this is a paper pasting pattern as well; not the… not the centre but the, um… uh, alternate blocks are paper paste. And this is Jinny Beyer inspired quilt and her pattern is called Moon Glow. I have seen people, um, doing this pattern; ga… they have their own name. But, uh, original pattern is from Jinny Beyer’s Moon Glow. Jinny Beyer, why she inspired me, her quilting journey started in India, quite fascinating, uh, when I looked at her bio. Her quilting journey started in India and different materials. She used to buy from the market and used to make her clothes; uh, make her… you know, the quilting. And, so when I wanted to… I mean, I bought some material from India and I looked at that and I thought, that’s it, this is what I’m going to do. Just one or two materials in here I think I bought it from the sh… uh, Festival of Quilts Show; but most of these quilts, uh, all of them are from, uh, um, India and that I bought. I don’t think I can make one, it would be so expensive [laughs]. I didn’t want… Yeah, it’s the only way I could do it. The only material that I bought was something from Bombay store, it’s this one. Because I needed a large amount of this and, um, I didn’t have any… anything of, uh, that amount with me. Um, so yeah, because, uh, you can see, most of them are kind of coming onto this. So yeah. So they are a lot of purple and mottled black with, uh, dark, uh, blue. There a lot of violets, pink in a different shade, green different shade, um, teal in a different shade and some are yellow. Has to be a lot of colour [laughs]. Compared to that one, which is very different. Very modern. But this is so big, um, I don’t think I can quilt it. But this one was done long before that. I’m thinking I have to quilt it, I have to quilt it; but I’m going to take it to quilter and take them to…
VM: You’ll take it and get it long arm?
GR: Long arm quilting, yeah; I don’t think I can… There’s nothing in Rotherham, so I have to go to Bradford or somewhere. There’s some in Sheffield. But I probably will take it back for it’s a tad bit cheaper and that’s the thing, probably that’s the reason I probably didn’t take, ’cause it’s so expensive. I needed to wait until I have enough to take it there. Quilting is an expensive hobby. But, uh, it’s fascinating. Um, it’s my therapy [laughs].
VM: It’s your therapy?
GR: Yeah.
VM: Explain that.
GR: Uh, it’s… it is your happy place. You know when… when you take care of your elderly Mum and… and it… everything kind of sometimes becomes… especially in winter, uh, you can’t go out you can’t do anything and you… and when you cut and draft your pattern, you concentrate on that and everything kind of [leaks?] out. Because you are in there. You have to concentrate otherwise you’re going to make a mess of this. These materials are expensive, even if I get it from India, um, oh the journey, it is and I’m not going to get it back. So you… you really have to concentrate; so, that is like a… I don’t know, meditation probably, because you really have to concentrate on one particular thing. And it… And when you… when you make something and then finishes, that’s the… that’s… and you see that you have done it, it’s… it’s… it’s a happy place. That you have something to show to yourself. Others enjoys it, brilliant; but you are showing to yourself and your achievement; that… that’s probably fascinating.
VM: So, for you it’s about kind of getting that personal satisfaction from achieving…
GR: Yeah. I think it’s for mostly people do… do things at home. Um, I mean, I have already… my boys, I… I have given them quilts to and their friends started to ask, you know, can your Mum make us one? We’ll pay and that’s where my problem starts. Everybody says, Gopa, you need to start now selling them. My… That’s my blockage, it worries me that, first of all I can let go; [laughs] that’s a big one; and secondly, what sort of price it’s going to be. Because you’re never going to achieve that price; so what is the realistic price? I haven’t got a clue and they wanted me to tell them how much it’s going to cost and I said, I really don’t know. Each quilt is so different. So my teacher said, oh you have to see first, yard wise; so if it is say two metres of material you needed for this, the metre, how much is going to be the metre? The minimum amount. And then your wadding and your backing. Then you think, how much are you going to give yourself hourly rate and that I don’t know.
VM: You don’t know how much you’re worth?
GR: No, at all. In terms of those. I know in my work, how much I was, uh, but those I don’t know; because it’s so different from… anyway, go to the website, it’s always giving you American version, you don’t get the British version. And whatever the Indian… or British versions are, um, different techniques; so its technique is different. So that quilt, because it’s hand pieced, um, the machine pieced but the hand joint, the whole wadding and everything, took longer. But the stitching wise it didn’t take that long, putting them together; so I haven’t got a clue what will be that one. But the material wise, it’s very expensive material. Oh with this, it took such a long time; paper piecing, all the materials are from India, so they are quite cheap. So there you are; so there has be some rounded figure and I don’t know where to find out and how to… how to tell you about that. But what I’m interested now, want to do a Guild and I don’t know what it is and where do you… where do you go? What do you do to get a guild? It’s not that I’m going to go somewhere with it, but it’s a focus again. It’s a… just an achievement.
VM: To do something like the City and Guilds?
GR: I do have a City and Guild in… in… in teaching, but the Guild in quilting and that probably I want to just venture out and see what this entail in there. That… You know, that will be really nice to do and I don’t know where to start in… in this country; where to start and… and… and anywhere… and what it is and I think no idea.
VM: The… The full quilts that you’ve shown me, they’re so completely different, in styles and techniques. Where… Where do you get your ideas from? What… What takes something from an idea to actually being a design?
GR: I… I question myself and… and I wanted to know why it’s not the similar type; because everybody does the similar… and that’s where they’re… And, I do get bored if I do the similar thing; um, because I’m not pushing myself to do the next level. So I think that’s where it is; when I push myself to do something totally. ‘Cause at the moment, um, I have quite a few, there’s four silk and dupion left from India that I last time I went; because they were cheap and I just bought it. And, uh, I think I bought only one from here, which is, uh, Thai silk. And I’m in the process of making, um, something like crazy quilt; very, um… with very pastel colours in silk; but there will be little bit of trap unto as well. So let’s see where this journey takes me; so it will be totally different from these. Um, because the silk I have to put a lining in the back to… to stabilise it enough, so that I can use it as a cotton. Um, so it’s… it’s that journey, uh, and I’m putting some lace, I’m putting some, uh, uh, small bits or… or a… you know, little pearls. Um, that will be the centre block with… with Grandmother’s Fan and then, that’s my vision. Uh, because that’s in the middle. Um, and the sides I probably have four corners of trap unto, um, and then little something. But I will add any colour; it’ll… it’ll stay white, um, very much light beige, uh, very light green. Touch of green, touch of pink, that sort of colour. Let’s say.
VM: So have you actually got your design drawn out or is it all in your head?
GR: No, it’s in my head. [laughs] It’s in my… There are some design that I’m following; so I’m picking this from there, this from there; so, just have to see where it goes.
VM: It’s more exciting that way though isn’t it?
GR: It is, it is. ‘Cause if you follow totally… Even it is Jinny Beyer pattern, all of those blocks are Jinny Beyer original pattern; but I’ve changed the colour, I’ve changed the texture, so that I can give little bit of mine. So it… it’s Jinny Beyer inspired quilt; so that’s… that’s… the pattern has… the pattern is her. But that one is totally mine. Um, I found this from there, that from there and I just put them together and when it came to quilting, because it’s so modern quilt, it cannot… it won’t take free motion… my kind of free motion and I wasn’t… I’m not that good to do all of them a free motion, to give justice to the Moda fabric; so, YouTube came to rescue, I just did circle in two different way; middle circle and that circle is other. So the circ… When you just prod it, then it just looks like the water gone in and it just ting, ting, ting, it’s… [VM: Hmm] moving out and then… So, it has got totally different… very different. And it’s fascinating how it attracts different people. Some… Um, because it is in my guest room and some will see it; ah, it’s a… yeah, it’s ni… Yeah you did it? Oh that’s good. And some will say, oh my God. So you know, you know what fascinates… I probably would do the same. So what fascinates, uh, other ones. It’s…
VM: I noticed on, um, well the… the Jane sampler one that you did, your points are perfect on it. Are you very…
GR: Paper piecing gives you perfect points. And… And… And that points is so important. The points are not right, it’s out, it’s going to go, I have to do it again; ’cause points, um… But I can achieve that with, uh, paper piecing.
VM: Do you find you’re quite a meticulous… If it’s not right it gets unpicked?
GR: Oh yes. I’ve just finished a quilt and I know I’m… not… just the top. Um, uh, and I bought some brushed fabric and I like playing with different fabric, um, just to see how far I can go. I don’t stay in the comfort zone, like to push it. And I can see I made a mistake and, uh, I took it to my class and… and I said, I just… I don’t want any wadding, I’m going to just put, uh, flannel in the back; because it’s brushed pattern, you don’t want to make it too heavy [laughs]. This… Uh, one of the group members say, ‘quick, quick, quick, just put it together, if Gopa sees it’. I can hear it there saying it, ‘if Gopa sees it she’s going to unpick it now’ [laughs]. They said, ‘where it’s going to go?’ And I said, ‘it’ll be in my Son’s room for summer when they come’. ‘He won’t see it, he’ll be fine. It’s already been pinned’. So this is one thing [UNSURE OF WORD], ’cause I can just see there’s a little bit of a point not matched properly. Sometimes I let go and I… Oh gosh, let it go. But if it is viable and then I probably will unpick; straightaway. Quite bad habit, but I do.
VM: So you go to your quite small little group where they… you’ve got your teacher there as well. D’you go to any other groups at all?
GR: Um, no, no, no. Um, but me, Rupa and there are two other people, Shupta and Ira, you know, when we started. But Shupta is a very good one but she doesn’t like to talk about it and… and she is very good. She drafts her own pattern, she’s really, really good. Um, but we always talked about, because what we do, because when Rupa, me and Shupta, we talk about… we talk about quilts, oh they’re so fascinating, wanted to learn, and that’s why this… this quilting group, to give it a go came, that if we could in future, um, set up a group. Along with the, uh, drop in group that we do; because not everybody wants to do it and we don’t want to lose them, because their focus is not in quilt. So it has to have, uh, another… another… and hopefully they’ll come and they’ll like it and they’ll continue. But it cannot be to the group that we run; ’cause we do other stuff in there. Um, to be able to, um… As long as we can get the rent paid, I think we will be able to, um, sustain that; ’cause people can bring their own stuff, everybody have their own cutting or this or that in their own house. You don’t need wadding, you can just go ahead with flannel in the back. So there is a lot of way you can achieve that. But you. I have to find a funding to… to be able to do it. So that will be our second group then. Otherwise, I know, we have these four people, we talk about quilt, we show each other what quilt and what we achieved and… and that what we do.
VM: D’you go and see many quilt exhibitions and…?
GR: Oh yes, highlight of the year. Yes. Just two. Um, the August the Festival of Quilts and the Harrogate Quilt Show. These are the two main that I… I usually go. Others are quite far from here, so, it doesn’t happen; unless I go and stay. Which I’m thinking of doing in, uh, Birmingham this year. Because, by the time we go there, it doesn’t give enough time, then you have to come back. It closes quick. Unless I go and stay, I don’t get to… ‘Cause, if I want to take any lesson, I really have to go and stay, to get any lesson; so. I mean, there was another one quite fascinates me, it’s somebody called, oh, very difficult name, Jacqueline de Jonge or something. Uh, she’s Scandinavian, Netherland, that sort of… and she does beautiful paper piecing. Her quilts were displayed last year. I bought her pattern; I’m not going to use her materials. To start with materials are expensive, but they don’t have my individuality; so I want to do it, um, my own kind of material and see whether I can do the pattern. But that’s in the back-burner; first my crazy quilt [laughs].
VM: So when you go to a quilt show, what’s… what’s your focus on? Is it going to the talks? Is it seeing exhibitions? Is it the stalls?
GR: Exhibitions. Exhibition is the first one; different peoples and… and their creativity. I just sit sometimes on the bench and then look at… and then the time… Because now I quilt, now I can just see the time and effort going into it. But that person was in her happy place, uh, while she was doing it. But the stalls, oh definitely; all the nik-naks people are selling and, oh, talks no. I don’t think I… I like to go and see that; I think I want to see… I’m more kind of that. Um, instead of reading I would rather look into the YouTube, how they’ve done it, they’ve talk and then they show. So yeah. Picture and displays and that’s how I… I kind of learn now. It’s my new me I suppose. I don’t never know until… until somebody said, how do you learn? I thought, okay, how do I do it? How? I don’t know. So yeah.
VM: So you’re very much a watching people demonstrate something. So d’you have many quilt books or d’you prefer going to YouTube?
GR: Um, I do mostly YouTube; mostly YouTube. But recently I became a member of Craftsy and I found that fascinating and there are so many free classes Um, uh, uh, Jinny Beyer had block of them on plus time and though I haven’t made a single one, it was a free… They always have a free block of them and… and I like that and, uh, you learn the technique. You may not make the whole quilt out of it, but you learn the technique; how to get the points of the stars first, last, with somebody. She was also… It was also a free one. So, um, yeah, I like that. And I… There was one woman who did free motion and that was free and that gave close up the technique; because it’s longer than YouTube and you just learn. But mainly… The first time I saw free motion was Leah Day; her quilting and how she does it and I immediately drawn into it and I always have a little piece and I just go, da-da, da-da, da-da. I still have… I mean, long way to go, my stitches are not the same. But, I don’t want any fancy machine which does it all, that needs not mine. So, yeah.
VM: So what machine did you use for this quilt?
GR: Um, Janome; um, normal craft. Because it’s got a little bit of larger hole, so I can push through bigger quilt.
VM: So whereabouts in home do you quilt?
GR: Uh, it’s now it’s easy because I used to… whenever, um, I… it’s one of my Son’s room and so when I do, um, a quilting, the big one, then it goes into another Son’s room. So, when they are home, it just tidy up and put it away and then, when I go to the class, um, they said, um, you know, everybody brings their… whatever they have done, I’ll say nothing. Then one of the class says, so who had… who had been then? Because they know [laughs]. The boys are home, Gopa is not going to do anything and it’s true. Uh, it’s so true.
VM: So, as soon as they’re home it all gets tucked away.
GR: Absolutely and once it tucked away it took an energy to bring everything out. If everything is up and open, you sit down and do it; but, um, yeah. I mean, now they are working it’s not like that anymore. Uh, but when they are in uni, um, they would come for longer period of time. But I only got the last part of their uni anyway, because I was working until 2010, when they finished. 2012 I think they finished; so, they probably at similar age of yours. Um, but from 2012 onwards, probably, that’s why I have masses of things, because I had more time to… About 2012, no, they will come back. I think it’s 14 when I started to do more, [siren noise in background] because then they both have jobs. It’s 14. 14, 15, yeah, 16, that’s right. 14 is the main. That one done 14, that one 14-15. Um, the… Dear Jane inspired was prior to that; so 14 and 15 were more productive year. And prior to that, whatever I made it’s gone. My sister got one, the boys had one, the friend’s families have one and they were very… very different; very different. But, when I go on holiday, I’ll always have some, uh, paper piecing as well; so I made some paper piecing; which is half done still upstairs. But yeah, it’s always something going on [laughs].
VM: Keeping busy. Let me just have a quick check [pause].
GR: Yeah.
VM: The only thing I’ve got left, what do you think is your biggest challenge with quilt making?
GR: The one that I’m starting now. My biggest challenge mainly is, um, if I could call somewhere who can… uh, can make large quilt and somebody can put all the layers together for me. Because I can machine quilt, it may not be really high spec; but I love to do that, then… and the whole thing is mine. But I physically find it quite challenging to put the top layer, wadding and the bottom layer together. I wish there is a service who can just do all of them, so that I can… I know there is some in Bradford, I’ll have to find if there is anything in Sheffield. I haven’t ventured a huge amount, to be able to see; but that’s something I would love. Not too expensive. It’s… If it is not too far from what I… you know, the long arm quilting, then it’s no point. But, uh, yeah, that’s something I would like. And I find the corners and squaring the quilt is challenging. Um, because you really need big place to be able to see all of those together. But for some reason and another, I… I… if it is a… I like to make utility quilts, just done a small quilt like peo… I have seen lots of. Um, my, um, group members they made; they just made probably about, I don’t know, 35 by 35 or 30 by 30 and I think, I wouldn’t have any use of this. How many I can put on back of sofa? But if I make a quilt somebody can use it and it’ll be displayed; it’s not going to stay in there. So that’s where my big quilt comes; I mean, this one too big; both of them. But the one that I made, that’s… that single bed. Um, to… if it is kind of… Even if it is a single bed, if somebody could put all of them together, then I can do the quilting. I think that’s what our next time we’ll see. If I can achieve that, a… a… a big blockage is kind of removed; that means I can… I can think of going into start, if people want me to make something for them and I can start sending them. Because my probably blockage is, I won’t be able to put it together, so how can I ask for money?
VM: Mm. Yeah.
GR: But my children, they are pushing me to… to… I think they want me to do something so that I don’t sit at home [laughs].
VM: How do they… How do they feel about your quilt making?
GR: The fascinating part is, when I have decided to stop working, then, um, my… my youngest, he said, you need to get into a hobby. They probably were worried that I’m going to be constantly bothering them [phone ringing in background]. You need to get into a hobby; you need to get into a hobby. Then when I found my hobby, they were really thrilled. Um, from Sierra Leone, when my Son went to Sierra Leone, he bought so many material from Sierra Leone, from the market; [talking in background] really good quality poplin material. Um, and I’m still thinking, I… it’s not the quilting, it’s not the main thing, it just like this; how I can give justice those… to those quilts. Because those qui… uh, those materials, ’cause they are from, um, that particular place where my Son… He was in, uh, medicine school, um, and that school… that particular, um, uh, hospital, uh, has… I mean, he got a scholarship from, what’s his name? Bill Gate, to… to do a… a project or a experiment or collecting data for some kind of fever from mosquito and that’s where he went for. But obviously they did that but his interest went into similar… the community and he was fascinated with their, um, uh, Gynae centre. They had to teach, um, those nurses and they… he’s so… they each… they… they wear all those clothes and the materials and he knew that I was thinking of… And so he asked those nurses, you know, where you get those, you know, fancy materials, that headgear? They’re all cotton. And, uh, so they said in the market. So they were all seconds, because, neighbouring places they probably buy it and because Sierra Leone is so poor, they just send it to them. Um, and they are… some of the metres… because they tie it, so it’s probably two and a half yards of… or two and a half metres of each piece, yeah, what they tie on their head, on just the top. So, he bought quite a lot of them. But they used it for their fancies; so first thing I had to do is really wash them properly. So I washed it and, iron it, put it away. So I have to think what I am… what I can make with this and obviously I’ll gift it to him. Um, but yeah. So they are… they really encourage me and, um, I had to stop them because they will buy… because they are boys, they don’t know really what have to buy. This year I said, just don’t buy any quilt books and I look those; because my interest is so changing and varied and they are no use. I had to tell them, otherwise they’ll kept on buying and they haven’t got a clue what to buy; they’ll just buy any material. ‘Oh this’ll do for Ma’. It don’t [laughs].
VM: Well, it’s so nice that they encourage you with it and they’re… and they’re… they’re proud of you… what you do?
GR: Yeah, they… they were. They know about today, um, it… it’s, uh, my Mum, my Husband, they do… they do encourage… um, they do tease me as well [laughs].
VM: I think every quiltmaker gets some teasing.
GR: Oh, I get a lot of teasing. Oh, oh, it’s your… aha, okay.
VM: Well thank you so much for sit… taking the time out of your day to… to talk to me about your quilts; they’ve been beautiful. I’ve really enjoyed talking to you.
GR: Oh thank you so much, so, you know, you… you appreciated my quilt and I think that’s for any quilter, that’s… nothing is better than that; that somebody’s appreciating what you love. Um, I think it’s so good.
VM: Yeah, thank you; really appreciate it.
GR: Thank you.